Tom Chavez

Gregg, I bow to your ineffable wisdom in comparison to which mine is infinitesimal. I'm trying to see the light.

LIGHT Part 1: Wave or particle?

Newton suggested that light consists of tiny particles generated by a hot object, which spray out at very high speed, bounce off objects, and are detected by our eyes. Newton’s arch-rival, Robert Hooke, thought that light must be a kind of wave motion, like sound. 

The strongest argument for a particle picture is that light travels in straight lines. You can hear around a corner, but you can’t see around a corner. Furthermore, wave-like interference effects are not easily observable for light.

We don’t usually see the wave-like nature of light because light’s wavelength is really short, about one fifty-thousandth of an inch. In contrast, the shortest wavelength of sound detectable by our ear is about half an inch. 

The interference patterns for sound waves or ripples on a pond vary over distances similar in size to the wavelengths involved.  Wave-like patterns for light are on such a tiny scale that human eyes normally don’t see them.

But the interference effects of light waves are visible in the many colors of a soap bubble. Light reflects from both sides of a bubble’s very thin film—a thickness that turns out to be comparable to the wavelength of light. 

Al Peffley

Time Magazine Person of the Year in the news:

https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/12/14/greta-thunberg-we-will-put-world-leaders-wall/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29

I am waiting for her to travel to China and lecture Bejjing in person. They are the biggest climate polluters on the planet with the largest and highest quantity of coal fired power plants (and counting). Communists don't like to be lectured about their governing and economic system choices. Brazil's president also apparently does not like your disrepectful attitude towards your elders and world leaders.

Geta sets a new standard low for international, social change diplomacy. Who is funding her campaign? Is she directly connected to AOC, Soros, the Club of Rome, and the Young Turks, or is she just an ally? What is next, a Nobel Prize?

Some day reality will set in for angry little Greta. Hopefully "Saint" Greta will not meet the fate of Joan of Arc. Only in the 21st Century can this kind of disrespect for elders be encouraged by social media and be tolerated by the political elitists who control the EU. This extreme activist rant from a child acting like a little dictator with a mustach shows no respect for adult humans who are her senior, or understanding love for her international, multicultural "neighbors". Threatening people with firing squad-like words never wins support from your elders or world leaders. Sewing hatred is a bad policy in human relations for people of any age. We will pray for Greta's awakening and repentance from her totalitarian attitude and verbal assults against humanity. I won't hold my breath until that happens after her latest demands tirade against supply & demand.

Yes Greta, many of us do care about the environment more than you give us credit for in your angry public speeches. We do our part through our voluntary systems' improvement and personal use actions, not because of your angry rants or UN agenda 2030 demands. The earth will continue to evolve and decay, whether you and your kind think you can "will" it to be changed through environmental (population) control extremism, or not. Don't be remembered as a Hitler-like dictatorial martyr, Greta. Strive to be a kind and loving change agent for waste control and achieveable world-wide consumer restraint (like not buying that raincoat you are wearing in the photograph, and not trashing your EV loaned cars with your plastic garbage.) Providing your fans with a few thoughts from one of the little people in the "cheap seats" here in the evolving American Union of Cascadia Region (not that you will ever see or probably care about my comments and observations here on this high school blog site.) If we were all perfect, we would'nt be here living in the greatest nation on earth (who hosts and is a charter member of the United Nations.) Cheers!

Tom Chavez

Al, you are super negative on China and Greta! Greta can speak for herself, but here are a few more positive views of China.

From Forbes Dec 11, 2019: China’s Smart Cities Are Magnets For Economic Growth And Environmental Stewardship

China has some of the most sophisticated cities in the world thanks to cloud computing and artificial intelligence. China, in fact, is home to about 500 of the roughly 1,000 smart cities that have been proposed, globally. Together they have become magnets, drawing in Fortune 500 companies, a highly educated workforce and billions of dollars in foreign investment.  

ScienceDaily Sept 13, 2019: A study of China's environment was conducted by a team of researchers from five countries, including Deliang Chen, a professor of physical meteorology at the University of Gothenburg. "Our research shows that increased environmental awareness and investments in China over the past decade have produced results," says Chen.

New York Times, Dec 9, 2019: China is becoming an energy superpower. Earlier this year, the Global Commission on the Geopolitics of the Energy Transformation reported that China became the world’s largest producer, exporter and installer of solar panels, wind turbines, batteries and electric vehicles, followed by Japan and Germany. The United States ranks fourth.

China surpassed the US for the lead in renewable energy technology, too, with 150,000 patents — making up 30 percent of the world’s total. We are second with just over 100,000 patents, while Japan and the European Union follow with about 75,000 each.

In 2015, China surpassed the US to become the largest electric vehicle market and is on pace to dominate production for the next 20 years. Chinese electric vehicles account for 60 percent of global sales: 876,000 vehicles were produced last year compared with 361,000 in America.

China has the largest high-speed railway in the world, with 19,000 miles of track and most major cities connected by the network. The United States has less than 500 miles. Our fastest train takes 19 to 22 hours from New York to Chicago, whereas the same distance in China takes four-and-a-half hours.

I don't mean to imply that China is utopia, far from it. What I most like, personally, is the friendly quality of the people. They remind me of America when we were kids—innocent, enthusiastic and optimistic. It is easy to criticize, but not always constructive. I wouldn't be surprised if China were to welcome Greta and respectfully hear her out. 

Gregg Wilson

Al and Tom,

Greta is an emotional tantrum and zero intelligence. Enuf on her.

I have been to China- Bejjing and north and west. Incredible pollution. They do not have scrubbers on their coal fired power plants. America has scrubbers on all coal fired power plants. The scrubbers remove sulfur oxides, nitric oxides, hydrogen fluoride and particulates. There are "environmentalists" who complain that American power plants have released pollution, which has killed many trees in the Olympic National Park.

Bullshit.

It is China's power plant pollution which has killed the trees in the Olympic National Park. The weather pattern transports their pollution to America. Been there; done that. Removing pollutants was our business.

The scrubbers remove the above acidic and toxic pollutants from the exhaust air and replace them with carbon dioxide and water.

OH THE HORROR!!!

Al Peffley

Tom,

There are people of good will who love and conduct themselves for the good of humanity and nature throughout the world, including China. Unfortunately China's Communist government form is not supportive of liberty and individual freedoms for everyone. Mainland China is trying to supress the independence of Hong Kong (after centuries of unique growth under the British governing version of social freedom.) China has advanced because of our economic dependence on their cheap production costs and huge industrial buildup programs. They have always been shrewd business negotiators and traders in world markets, especially dealing with western civilization countries. Their Communist government has also persecuted and killed many good people on the mainland in the name of the Maoist-inspired "common good".

Part of my job at Boeing was to assess our national budget (especially R&D budgets) and evaluate threats and economic competition from enemies of our free Republic. I also assessed non-carbon fuel and electric power energy technologies in relationship to space (solar power satellites), air (long duration flight UAV's), sea (magnitohydrodynamic APU's for rail guns), and terrestrial (hybrid vehicles) power generating systems. Many areas of mobile and stationary power generation technologies are still not operationally mature, but many are improving. Socialized transportation systems implementation and associated urban planning is cultural. We poorly planned our public rail systems, which should have been developed like the freeway system. High speed rail is a western culture (Euro-American) system creation that has been embraced in China through imitation and land use expansion. It has its good points (reduced time) and its flaws. It is land use intensive and is based on fixed point of ingress/egress locations at schedules of time that may not serve everyone. Freedom of daily schedule choices is limited unless assigned work activity is the primary reason for its daily use to fixed locations of activity from one's living quarters.

The commercial electrical products that China is trying to produce for "green energy" use are not living up to their advertised operational life expectancies (LED bulbs, solar panels, non-lead/acid storage batteries, solar collector panels, etc.) In most cases the LED elements are not failing in low wattage bulbs -- it's the wiring circuit interfaces with the power source are poorly manufactured and failing. The State controls all industrial matters and tax systems. Businesses that don't fit the Maoist operations model are closed and their assets ceased by the central government, not normally purchased by oportunist foreign entities. Chinese are buying up industries in America at a higher rate than Americans are investing in Chinese factories. Foreigners are "partners" in Chinese subsidized factories, unlike America where the federal government is seldom involved with American business takeovers by foreign national entities. This has tilted the ownership of world resources towards Communist Chinese government-controlled businesses. The balance of trade over the past 50 years has become one-sided, and it is adding to our huge national debt to China. Yet I repeat myself.

We have a serious drain on available natural worldwide resources (precious metals, lithium, arsenic, etc.) to deal with for procucing "green" electrical energy products. The technology application outcomes can be hazardous waste production or limited in availability and expense. None of the green energy industry products are labor-intensive. Lithium is mined from huge open pits (talk about a significant environmental impact!) We don't need to evolve back to 1200 AD to achieve a realistic balance of limited world resources, just a common-sense moderation of a mix of energy use choices by moral conscience and cost effectiveness. End of my contribution to the discussion.

Tom Chavez

Al and Gregg, you’ve dissed Greta that she is disrespectful, emotional and has zero intelligence. From previous posts I understand you two are on the skeptical end of the climate change spectrum, and I gather that she is on the opposite sentimental to fanatical end. 

Youngsters are not very good at following the instructions of their elders, but invariably follow their example. If you are disrespectful to her, what example does that set?

Ad hominem attacks, the political strategy of “give the dog a bad name and hang it,” is easier than dealing with evidence and logical argument, but it isn’t persuasive. If you think she is too emotional, why not rationally point out how her emotions are coloring her perceptions and conclusions? 

There is plenty of evidence from scientists, NASA and military planners about climate change implications. Factual evidence, science and logic are superior to emotional ideology for an understanding of reality. Respect and civility are preferable to disrespectful incivility in a civilized society. 

Tom Chavez

Gregg, when was the last time you were in China? Your info is totally dated. The east is turning from red to green! China is both cutting back on coal and upgrading the technology. Their new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than ours. Here are some updates from the past 9 years.

MIT Technology Review May 27, 2015 When William Latta first came to China, in 2005, he intended to look for companies to acquire for the French power giant Alstom. He wound up creating his own.

The company that Latta founded, LP Amina, uses ammonia derivatives called amines to reduce pollution from coal plants’ smokestacks, particularly sulfur oxides and nitrogen oxides. LP Amina and its competitors are actually becoming victims of their own success. “On the conventional pollutants in flue gas, by 2020 the level of compliance in China will be equal to the U.S. or Europe,” says Latta. (Written in 2015)

Environmental Science Technology 2011, 45, 380-385

China has deployed the world’s largest fleet of sulfur dioxide (SO2) scrubbers (flue gas desulfurization systems), and most of them now appear to be operating properly. (Written in 2011)

Center for American Progress May 15, 2017

Beijing has been steadily shutting down the nation’s older, low-efficiency, and high-emissions plants to replace them with new, lower-emitting coal plants that are more efficient than anything operating in the United States.

The U.S. coal fleet is much older than China’s: Among the top 100 most efficient plants in the United States, the initial operating years range from 1967 to 2012. In China, the oldest plant on the top 100 list was commissioned in 2006, and the youngest was commissioned in 2015.

Three things to understand about coal in China:

1. China’s new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than anything operating in the United States.
2. China’s emissions standards for conventional air pollutants from coal-fired power plants are stricter than the comparable U.S. standards.
3. Demand for coal-fired power is falling so quickly in China that the nation cannot support its existing fleet. Many of the coal-fired power plants are actually white elephants that Chinese leaders are already targeting in a wave of forced plant closures.

NPR: Edward Cunningham, a specialist on China and its energy markets at Harvard University, tells NPR that China is building or planning more than 300 coal plants in Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Egypt and the Philippines.

China has restrained the growth of its coal industry — at home. For many years, four huge electric power plants burned coal within Beijing, contributing to the city's choking smog. Within the past four years, all four stopped burning coal. A visit by NPR to one of the plants confirms that it now burns natural gas.

Bloomberg: A report compiled by GEM (Global Energy Monitor) shows that China has been closing about 8 gigawatts of coal power capacity annually for the past several years.

OilPrice.com: China has a whopping 226 GW of new coal plants in the pipeline. Coal’s dominance is set to decline from 60 percent in 2017 to 35 percent in 2040, according to the BP Energy Outlook 2019. Coal demand in China peaked in 2013, BP says.

Engineering & Technology: On multiple fronts China has fought to turn ‘greener’. It ran aggressive programs to replace coal in heating and industry with electricity and gas – figures show a cut in coal’s share of its total energy mix to 59 per cent, down from 68.5 per cent in 2012.

Gregg Wilson

Tom,

I was in the air pollution and water pollution business from late 1979 to mid 2016. You can quote all sorts of grand organizations with grand surveys. I do not believe them. I was there.

We did business all over the world except South America. China was the worst by far for pollution.

Claims coming out of China are propaganda

Al Peffley

Tom,

I do agree with Gregg. Greta has been used by some of her political elders to confront the world on hypothisized climate change effects to future generations and substantiate "end of the world" predictions. In the process she has made some bad social errors in judgement (that I seriously doubt were entirely her idea.) Any good parent would provide better guidance on showing respect and honor in her recent speaches to world leaders (people that are many years her senior in age and experience.) I see after her last language "gaff" in Italy that she is going to take a break from her road campaign events. Sounds to me like a good decision by her own judgement and her handlers'/enablers' choice. The international blowback on her bad choice of words was obviously quite a shock to her.

How many coal-fired plants does the United States still operate? How many that don't have scrubbers? How many safe operating nuclear plants have we deactivated in the name of environmental activisim? How many electric power users do we have versus China? Who are the largest users of energy in the United States, and why do we need so many gigawatts of power for Internet and communication server systems? What are the negative health and environmental effects of our excessive use of IoT devices? Why are methanol-powered fuel cell systems bad for vehicle propulsion systems? What is wrong with natural gas and methane/propane fuel sources use for heat? So many questions, so few things that people can use for energy sources that are "approved green sources" by the extreme left in the political spectrum.

Why is the U.S. always the target for "change" when it seems we are told approximately 80% of the rest of the world needs our money and resources to change their own domestic-created environmental problems? Why are we expected to be the world's financial, illegal immigration, and infrastructure fixer "nanny"? No spin meant here, just a few conundrum questions I have about our voluntary "climate change" abatement options through Sustainable Development.

Sherry Sanders (Kimbrough)

Could we please limit this forum to current information about our lives, the loss of classmates or information of interest to all? Thank you.

Tom Gustafson

I agree I'm tired of the pissing match

Bill Engelhardt

No disrecpect intended to the more frequent contributors of late, but as one who is arguably still entombed in the '60s, I concur with Sherry and Tom. 

Bill

James (Jim) Mathews

I love this forum as a way of keeping somewhat in touch having lived away for so many years.  Maybe the 3 of you could swap emails and continue your discussions that way.  Respectfully, Jim

Al Peffley

Agreed. My apologies to those who want to restrain long discussions of world issues and science debates. I got carried away.

Regards,

Al

Betty Weiks (Rickard)

Thank you, Sherry, (Tom Gustafson, James, and Al)!  I agree that it would be nice to hear about what is of interest to all. It might be interesting just to find out where we all are living currently.  I live in Canby, Oregon which is a suburb south of Portland. I have four boys, two daughters in law, and four grandchildren. I'm retiired from teaching now. Currently, I'm writing a book about donating my kidney to our oldest son who was a perfect match even though he was adopted.

To all of you, I hope you will have a wonderful Christmas, with many precious moments with your family and friends.

God bless!

Robert Bramel

Earthquake insurance

I’m working with the author of a book about earthquake preparedness. As many of you know, the Cascadia fault off our coast has produced truly monstrous quakes (among the very biggest in the world) and it will again. The average period between quakes in the last 10,000 years is 243 years. We have now gone 320 years since the last one.

We’ve been writing an earthquake insurance section. It appears to us our state’s private insurers are cause for real concerns, both from rate increases and ability to pay in the event of “the Big One”. Washington State is in need of something similar to the California Earthquake Authority (CEA). This is a 20 year old non-profit, no tax payer money operation that sells only earthquake insurance to residences. All prices are required to be scientifically justified. This body has provided more than a million policies in California and is phenomenally well positioned to be able to pay out even with a major earthquake. Its sole purpose is to make sure that Californians will be able to rebuild after a major quake. Washington needs its own Earthquake Authority.

I have written to state legislators to begin the process of providing legislation for Washington. This will need grassroots effort if is to succeed. Anyone willing to contact their legislators should send me a private message through the "message center", not the "message forum". (Hopefully this won't be a continuing discussion on the forum). Thanks!

Al Peffley

Two points I would like to make to the Message Forum readers. One, I agreed to stop my long posts here about social justice, religion, and technology subject matter topics. Two, I have asked Gary K. to create a second forum on our website called "Open Discussion Forum", for those of us who don't want a social media forum like Facebook to discuss adult and current event subject matters with our classmates. Tom , Gregg, Bob, and I do have some classmate followers that don't want subject matter topics to be limited. I agree that this "message" blog should be meant for shorter announcement subjects than some of us were posting here on this website.

Bob, since you posted the request for earthquake insurance provisions for Washington State real property owners here I might suggest that "Flood Coverage" be added to the new real property policies as an option. I am against any joint poliitcal, partisan, or non-profit connections with California at this time. All of this should be coordinated through the Insurance Comissioners Office in Olympia.

Have a safe holiday celebration that shares love and joy for the Christ Child's birth over 2,000 years ago.

Bruce Mennella

I would also like to add my thanks to Sherry, Tom, Bill, James, and Betty, time to continue these discussions amoung yourselves utilizing another format.  

I missed the 55th reunion, as Louise and I were traveling to celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary.  I have heard that the party was unfortunately poorly attended, and that Bill Hamilton and Gary Korsguaard came up short due to financial comittments.  Even today, they have not recovered everything they have paid out inorder to facilitate the reunion.  I feel it is not fair for them to bear the financial burden, and have just made a payment on the Reunion Funding page.  I made the payment not for me, but on behalf of Steve Anderson and Mike McCarthy, who very regrettibly were not able to attend.

In addition to being on the short end of this reunion, Gary has been paying the monthly fee for this website.  Over the last 50 plus years this comes to over $4,500.00, and starting next year the annual cost to keep the site up and running will be about $200.00.  He will admit that some years there have been enough reunion funds available to recoup portions of the annual charges.

Here is my challenge.  We need to get Bill and Gary whole for the 55th, and out of pocket web costs, so for those of us like myself, who did not attend, possibly you could make a donation in your name or in the name of a fallen classmate.  You can do it right on the web page, or by sending Gary a check.  His address is on the main web page where you sign in to get to this forum.  Thank you in advance for anything you can contribute for the cause.

Happy holidays and Merry Christmas to all.

Bruce Mennella

Betty Weiks (Rickard)

Oh, my goodness! Bruce, I didn't realize that there were outstanding debts owed! I agree that we should help with that, and I will.  Thanks for pointing it out to those of us who were not able to attend. Thank you Gary and Bill for your efforts to keep things going all these years.

Blessings to you!

Bill Engelhardt

I like Bruce's suggestion and am glad to make a contribution to get this ship righted. Many of us don't need an additional incentive to rally behind Gary and Bill, but just an idea:
Perhaps the web manager(s) could provide a specific figure -- a target financial goal -- and update us periodically on how we're doing to achieve it. Maybe gin up a thermometer-style graphic that gauges our progress, and which may encourage others to jump on board, too. 

Al Peffley

I like your proposal, Bruce.  I also like your idea, Bill, about about publishing financial goal information concerning the two operating expenses of cost recovery for the last reunion shortfall and a website expenses donation support drive. The donations projects' status reports could also be accomplished by posting two simple, goal-oriented tables or Bill's thermometer-like status info graphics (United Way template.) They would be updated on the website as donations are submitted for cost recovery of both accounts (maybe the progress updates could be posted quarterly?). Well said, guys.

Scott McDade

Bruce, thank you for your suggestion and your challenge, which I accept. I've just made a donation to the fund through the web site, and hope others will do the same today. It only takes a minute. Gary, please let us know how much more is needed to repay the out-of-pocket expenses you've been carrying for the reunion and web hosting. Let's all get this done! 

Betty Weiks (Rickard)

Gary,

I sent my contribution to the Reunion Fundraiser, if that wasn't the right place please let me know.  Thanks for all you've done over the years.

Blessings!

Tom Chavez

Just sent my donation via the website. Thanks to Gary and the powers that be.

Al, regarding your suggestion for a Discussion Forum, I notice there is already a General Discussion forum. If you click User Forums on the menu sidebar (just under Message Forum) you will find it. It has been used only a handful of times since 2009, probably because it is not immediately accessible. Can it be made more accessible? If we can opt in or out, those who prefer won’t be disturbed with unwanted messages.

Renee Smith (Ervin)

Thanks, Gary, for all you do.  My contribution is on it's way.  No one should do most of the work and then get  stuck with the bills, too.  I think our class members have a sense of fair play and will make it right.  Some of us don't get on the website real often so have missed the news about the shortfall.  I'm proud of our class. LOTS of good people!